How About Tomorrow We Can Try Again You re My Savior
Eugene from Ukraine: An online diary of war thirty:35 Copy the code below to embed the WBUR audio player on your site
Copy the code below to embed the WBUR audio player on your site
Play
"How to fix your house for an active wartime?"
This was the championship of a postal service on r/NoStupidQuestions about a month agone. The Reddit user, a 32-year one-time Ukrainian proper name Eugene, asked other users for advice in case Russian federation invaded. On Feb. 24, Eugene updated the post: "It happened. Nothing can prepare yous to waking upward at 5 a.yard. from explosions, information technology was the single about scary experience of my life." This calendar week, Ben and Amory hear from Eugene equally he navigates life in Kyiv and struggles to assess the reality and unreality of data online.
Show notes
- "How to prepare your house for an agile wartime?" (Reddit)
- Diary from Kyiv (Reddit)
- "Want to support the people in Ukraine? Here'southward how you can help." (NPR)
Full Transcript:
This content was originally created for audio. The transcript has been edited from our original script for clarity. Heads upwardly that some elements (i.e. music, sound effects, tone) are harder to interpret to text.
Ben Brock Johnson: Amory, I don't know annihilation virtually war, really, only I know that I hate it. And so it's kind of been difficult to pay attending to the news in some ways. And at the same time, it's important not to look away, correct? Finding out how to do that thoughtfully, responsibly, empathetically is also hard. Just I think a lot of the people who care about what is happening in Ukraine and care about anyone afflicted past war anywhere are trying. And I think that includes united states.
Amory Sivertson: Aye, for certain.
Ben: Which is a reason why I think nosotros we all agreed to to talk about Ukraine this calendar week.
Ben: So I desire to talk about some specific ways that the cyberspace specifically is playing a role. How have you been consuming information about the war in Ukraine?
Amory: Information technology's interesting that you said that you lot haven't necessarily been wanting to melody in to the news because it'southward hard and nonetheless I feel like news these days you can't avert it if you are on social media, news is fed to you. You don't have to actively intentionally consume news to to have it served upwardly. Then, you know, I listen to our local public radio station every forenoon, WBUR. But yeah, it'southward unavoidable. I'm on Twitter. Information technology's there. I'm on Instagram. It'southward there because people are talking about it and thinking virtually it. And that's both a practiced thing and a hard matter.
Ben: So exercise you know about the "ghost of Kyiv"? Did y'all run into the purported captured Russian soldiers who had been told they were headed into Ukraine to defend its people from a Nazi Ukrainian authorities? Did you, like, any of that ring a bell?
Amory: I accept seen some of those memes, and I did run across a video of someone telling Russian troops to go, f*** themselves.
Ben: OK, so we're going to talk through some of that stuff. But dorsum to the sort of goal of existence responsible, I think the thing that that I've been most focused on over the final, I don't know, 10 days or then and we've been kind of talking about was connecting with Eugene, who I believe to be a real person in Ukraine.
Eugene: Uh, this is Eugene. I'1000 from Kyiv. This is day five of the state of war. It's Monday.
Ben: So I plant Eugene because he posted in the "No Stupid Questions" subreddit and his postal service was titled "How to Prepare Your Firm for an Active Wartime?" And this post got a lot of interesting responses. You know, basically he was proverb, I'm in Kiev and similar, I, you know, I don't know how to set up for this.
Amory: And this post was fabricated when, how many, how far in advance of the bodily invasion?
Ben: perchance 25 days ago. And so most a calendar month ago now. OK. Sort of anticipating the invasion. And it got a lot of interesting responses from people who said that they had been in other areas of the world, that it had disharmonize. So Sarajevo, someone, you know, said Africa without specifying and had a bunch of advice about being in an active state of war zone. You know, people talked about how to duct record windows and stay away from them. Too, how fuel becomes valuable and tradable. But I reached out to Eugene and asked if he would talk to us. And at first, his response was that he'd happily exercise an email interview or something like that, but would not tape his voice for united states, which in the world that nosotros're living in sort of made it pretty hard to be sure he was who he said he was and where he was. You know, early on on, I did trade photos with him via a burner email that he ready upwardly. Eugene sent me sort of like Reddit-AMA-style photos of himself holding upwardly a paper with my proper noun and the date written on it and also belongings his Ukrainian passport. And then let'southward have a look at some of the correspondence.
Amory: OK, so he says, "Hey, Ben." He thanks you for having an involvement in this and wanting to shed light on the topic, he says, "Simply I can't practice it on a podcast as in vocally. Sorry, but I just don't want to 'speak,' however, in any other form, I'll gladly assistance out."
Ben: And then I got back to him and y'all know, you asked him more most his situation and what he was doing and what he was thinking about. And I also just sort of inquired why he didn't want to talk to us similar vocally.
Amory: He says "It'southward non that I don't want to continue record or save my privacy. I'm non afraid to share my opinion, nevertheless minuscule information technology might be. I just don't want to speak literally in text. Sure, no problem. Merely I won't talk." Hmm.
Ben: Yes, so, you know, it's just it'south hard like again, similar nosotros're in this really weird moment. It's like astonishing that you tin talk to someone from thousands of miles abroad. Right? And also within a level of immediacy, like upwardly to the minute going back and along. And at the same fourth dimension, not know who they are. And then I asked him for an update.
Amory: And he writes back sometime last calendar week, late last calendar week. He says, "I've been trying to get out and purchase some food and water. And as of now, it seems to be silent and so you lot can type out what you want to know. And when I accept time, I'll start writing. We do accept higher priorities, but we're potentially under missile fire, so the full general communication is to stay at home. So I'g more often than not just nervously reading all the news I tin can find."
Ben: So I responded to him and I said, "OK, what'due south your name? How old are y'all? Where are yous in Ukraine? Are you solitary or are yous with family unit?"
Amory: He writes dorsum, "There was just an unofficial announcement of an airstrike. So we sit tight again. My name's Eugene. I'one thousand 32, and right now I'm with my mom in her apartment. It's on the outer side of Kyiv, closer to Brovary, where in that location were missile strikes at five a.thou. and so at 12 p.1000. At that place'south a armed services base or an airfield, something like that. I don't know."
Ben: Then this is when we go back and along about the proof of who we are. And in that process, I likewise asked him I tried to similar, proceed asking him questions about what was happening there at the same time because I just didn't know how long I was going to be able to talk to him. And then every message I sent to him, I put in a question most what was going on with him.
And so, for example, ane day I asked him how he was feeling and he wrote back: "iii.vi Roentgen: Non Not bad, Not Terrible." I didn't become that at the time, but I Googled it and it'south actually a meme from the HBO showChernobyl.
[What does the dosimeter say? 3.6 Roentgen but that'due south as high as it–3.6. Not great not terrible.]
Ben: There's 1 scene in which they are measuring radiations levels and the reading is 3.six Roentgens, which is something like 10 times the boilerplate radiations level in the U.S. I kind of took this about as a tell because it feels similar a Ukrainian or Eastern European meme like the domestic dog in the fire saying "This is Fine."
Anyway, later that, I asked him, What are you most concerned well-nigh right at present?
Amory: And he writes dorsum, "Correct now? that they're going to flop Kiev. It was the scariest f***ing dark of my life and they were shelling in 20 kilometers from here. It was loud and horrifying, and I'm scared sitting past the window, to exist honest, just announced the curfew for 10 p.g. to 7 a.m., which means we have to stay within. Just what if they're actually going to bomb Kyiv and not just military targets? There'south videos emerging of planes and helicopters just bombing. Not sure if that's the correct give-and-take? Merely bombing residential suburbs. And there'south a lot of Infowars similar it's really hard to know if the news are true or not. And there's a lot of rumors like one guy only said he knows a guy that knows a guy in the armed forces. And the unofficial proposal from Putin is that nosotros give upward in eight hours or they start bombing the cities. It sounds crazy and like a scare tactic, but at this point, I don't know anymore, actually. So today my biggest issue is should I stay home or become to the shelter?"
Ben: I asked him, like, what was important for people outside of Ukraine to understand nigh what is happening there?
Amory: And he writes, "The nearly important affair people don't know is that the 2022 invasion never concluded." So he must exist talking most the annexation of Crimea. "The war was slowly going on these eight years and every day, I s*** yous not. In that location were casualties in the East. We but want them to f*** off and keep u.s.a. solitary. And they view themselves as some sort of big brother and a savior no 1 asked for. Somehow over the years – 2004 and 2022 – nosotros didn't go the path of Belarus and managed to somewhat give him the finger. So I don't actually know why at present, exactly. Distressing for the typing errors. I'thousand trying to do this every bit fast every bit I can."
Ben: So he and I get back and forth a lot more. He suggests that I download Telegram and so that he tin can give me links to channels that are sharing pics and videos of the violence that's happening in Ukraine.
Amory: I don't know Telegram. Is this a new…?
Ben: It's a it's an encrypted messaging app. It's not new, but it's yes. And y'all know, I didn't end up doing that, just I ended up finding a lot of the stuff that he was talking about, and he ends up posting some of it on Reddit as well. Information technology's really agonizing. You know, people have seen some of these images of charred bodies from from missile strikes and stuff, both Russian soldiers and civilians in Ukraine. And, you know, over again, this stuff is like, it's really tricky because there's a lot of it that's fake. I asked him what he does for piece of work and he talks nearly. So he has a he actually has a calligraphy online business where he does calligraphy for people.
Amory: Huh.
Ben: And so he finally sort of gave me an answer of like, why he wouldn't actually talk on a recording.
Amory: Yep, "I just don't feel comfortable speaking in English. I write and read a lot so I tin somewhat express my thoughts on paper. Only I have roughly—" I'd say he is doing a smashing job at expressing his thoughts on newspaper, I'm very impressed. "I can, I write and read a lot so I can somewhat limited my thoughts on paper. Merely I have roughly zero experience in bodily speaking, so I tin't talk whatsoever good. It'southward probably stupid at a time similar this, but I feel like that would be as well stressful."
Ben: Then so I just asked him to similar record sound from where he was and whether he was thinking well-nigh planning on fighting considering as we know people were, you know, handing out weapons to civilians take been handing out weapons to civilians in order to join the Territorial Defense force, I remember it's called. And he says, you know, basically they don't demand him. He doesn't plan to fight considering he's never been in the ground forces, and then they don't need me. "Today, nosotros wanted to donate claret, but in two hospitals we've been at that place were hundreds of people in lines to donate. Then nosotros went to the biggest open up supermarket we could detect and bought nutrient and stuff for volunteers and TER defense." So territorial defense force, that's the the civilian defence that'southward sort of sprung up there. Okay. He also said our government insists we do not make whatever recordings of any kind for strategic purposes. So I won't do that. And I said, Oh, wow, I didn't realize the authorities asked people non to record fifty-fifty just audio. And then he has this answer.
Amory: He says, "The reason is that technically one might triangulate the blast place from the recording identify and employ it as an arms adjustment. I won't argue that, but let me tell you, if you lot simply endeavor and record something exterior, people might just beat y'all or at to the lowest degree will definitely call the police. It's no joke."
Ben: But then, after a few days … and as it became clear that the Russian army wasn't going to be able to overtake Ukraine in i roughshod swoop, he wrote this:
Amory: "Their goal was to get Kyiv fast, and it's been 2 days and still nothing. Morale is off the scale and we know nosotros're winning. More than and more countries aid us. Information technology feels like they realized we tin do this, so they finally have a motive to tell Russia to f*** off and stick it to them. Information technology's really getting better by the hour. Knock on wood."
Ben: So then a couple, this was one day ago. Um, he sent me a message that said:
Amory: "Bank check your mail service, mate."
Eugene: I came out from home to attempt and get some food and supplies. I don't know what…what I tin tape for you because at that place's nothing happening today.
Ben: And so, yes, so he sent me a recording, and this is the flake of his voice that you heard at the top, he just sent me about a four infinitesimal recording of walking around outside in Kyiv.
Eugene: There's no airstrikes equally of now. Wait. It'due south 12 p.m. almost ane p.yard. All the stores are airtight or empty. The ones that are open there are hundreds of people waiting in lines.
Ben: Yes, then, yous know, again, like I'grand just sort of going back and along with Eugene and nosotros're talking about what is happening in that location, I'm trying to stay in bear on with them. He is starting. He, you know, he'due south started to kind of coordinate from habitation, just try to connect people is some of the piece of work he'south doing now, it seems. He's he'due south like trying to aid people who accept supplies, go them to people who need supplies. Um, and I recollect it's in part of merely like the fact that he is a Redditor who is extremely online. He's practiced at this stuff, I think. And then like that is the role that he's starting to play.
Eugene: I'thousand at the supermarket. There'due south not a lot of people because they well, they manage how, how much, how many people they do is how many people tin go inside, then it's fairly depression key inside. And and then at that place is nutrient, equally they can see for now, but I'm going to terminate talking for now. [SPEAKING RUSSIAN.] So, I speak when I tin can, but when I can't, I don't speak. So you'll have to mind to this. Sorry. My main goal for myself is to practice some meat. It'south not urgent, merely I want to have sort of meat for myself. [ANNOUNCER.] The store is so big, I've lost my friend and then I'm trying to find them now. But y'all know, information technology's fairly OK. I come across some sausages. [ANNOUNCER.] Merely was an airstrike siren and so they told us we should bustle and leave probably the store. So, I'g running. [DOOR SOUNDS, RUNNING.]
Amory: Yes, he says, "Defense units need new stuff every 24-hour interval. So we have new needs every day. So I get a lot of contacts and endeavor to juggle them to the extent of my capabilities. Basically, I'yard not an official volunteer or a member of the territorial defense, so I endeavour to act as a conductor between them and the exterior people because information technology's too many calls and messages. I'one thousand making information technology sound like it's something big and important, simply basically I just get contacts of people with needed stuff and then organize the pickup for them."
Ben: And so the final thing he sent me was about seven hours ago, and he says, "Tomorrow we're going to ride forth the streets, simply and so it's all going to be in Russian, is that whatever good for yous?" And he sent me more recordings this morning time.
Eugene: Hullo once again, this is Eugene from Kyiv. It's like the 6th day of the state of war. I don't know what they're doing. As always, I'k sitting in a car, so I'1000 I'm going to get out at present. I just take. The affair is, I just have similar wet feet and it's cold. So I decided that I would sit hither and then I won't get common cold. Not not the time to be ill. Yeah, I don't know what else to say. Kyiv is silent. It's been pretty fine hither, simply outside the small towns effectually Kyiv are just being bombed. Information technology's it's really information technology'due south really lamentable because basically they're fighting for us. They're fighting so that so that the tanks tin't come up hither in Kyiv. And I experience I feel responsible for that. And I experience that in that location are people who die for us and for me, and I tin't fifty-fifty do annihilation about it. Information technology just it just really, really, I don't know, really horrible all around. Oh, what else? I can't go get out now, far from from the auto because people left me to basically to baby-sit it so I can't record any sounds or any people. If I get to the shop or somewhere shut, I try to tape the insides of the shop so well, and that's about it, I approximate, for now. Stay safe.
Ben: So I don't know, Amory, if you lot have thoughts, but I just it's been really interesting and. You know, also concerning to be in touch with someone who is in Kiev and learn what their life is like these by, you know, a couple of weeks.
Amory: I feel like I don't know if you lot've heard it in my voice, but I'm I'm like teetering on the edge of just meltdown reading these. Maybe meltdown is the incorrect give-and-take, but. At that place was at that place was a tweet that I saw earlier this week by, I believe this is a medical professional person. Yeah. Palliative intendance doc Naheed Dosani. And the tweet is, "Wanna know the only difference between you and a refugee? Luck." So, I think that's the place that I've been in this whole week.
Ben: Yeah, me too. Well, we'll stay in bear upon with Eugene and and patently wish him luck.
[SPONSOR Interruption]
Ben: Amory, along with us talking to Eugene, nosotros too talked to people on our subreddit about what they wanted to hear near and larn about when it came to Ukraine. And I should say, like a few people said, we don't want to hear, that'south not what nosotros come up to you for, we don't want to hear nigh Ukraine. But we also had a lot of people talk near just the role the internet and Reddit and other social media sites are playing in this conflict. Um, and then I wanted to talk through a couple of those things with you. And the first is the "Ghost of Kiev." Practise you know what this is?
Amory: I do not, no.
Ben: So i of the interesting things that has happened, you know, but in the last calendar week or so is that there's just been a huge I would say, I would argue, a huge public relations win for Ukraine, just like everybody on the internet, seems to exist rooting for Ukraine. That has been spurred on by a meme is and, y'all know, viral video clips. And 1 of the viral video clips was supposedly footage of a Ukrainian fighter pilot who would eventually be nicknamed the Ghost of Kiev, who was rumored to take shot down several Russian shipping
Amory: Rumored, but no footage to verify?
Ben: Well, this is what's interesting. There was footage. In that location was footage supposedly showing a Ukrainian MiG 29 fighter pilot shooting down Russian warplanes, supposedly vi Russian warplanes.
[Audio of planes.]
But interestingly, this footage. Is actually a simulation that was created in a video game chosen Digital Combat Simulator.
[Sound of planes and missile burn.]
Amory: Whoa.
Ben: Oh, aye. The footage looks very existent, so I'm looking at PolitiFact, if you know that site, the sort of fact checking site. And it is rating. Um, well, it's certainly rating the video as imitation, and it sort of defines this as a rumor and also says it is unclear if such a pilot exists.
Amory: And so the video is definitely fake, but they recollect it may be a simulation of a real result.
Ben: That is the suggestion. I mean, and Ukrainian government officials were retweeting this video. You know, people all over the identify where retweeting this video. Only it's just an interesting style in which you know it becomes harder and harder for us to tell what'south existent and what'southward simulated on the net and when there's an armed disharmonize happening, fifty-fifty that piece of it is, is, you know, information technology's trickier and trickier.
Amory: This is making me glad that the majority of the news coverage that I've consumed is from the radio, from audio, people who are on the basis and are talking to people as they're going through these things because. I don't know. I wouldn't know. I wouldn't know real from simulated, I bet.
Ben: Pretty tricky, right?
Amory: Yeah.
Ben: You know, one of the videos that really struck a chord in me was this video of what purports to be Russian soldiers who have been captured by the Ukrainians calling their mothers and their relatives in Russian federation.
[Men speaking Russian.]
To let them know that they are in Ukraine and allow them know that they were role of an invasion, not a peacekeeping mission, not an exercise.
This has been, of form, an event, considering Russia, you know, in the media, in Russia is heavily restricted, and what people are hearing is happening in Russia is very different from how people get information outside of Russian federation. And that includes armed services families and that only, you know, really struck me.
Amory: Yeah. And why permit them know? I hateful. Maybe, possibly it would not be a surprise to the family unit members that this is an invasion and not a peacekeeping mission. Merely but there's yeah, there's something to me about that that is but like, if this doesn't end well, let the record testify what this was.
Ben: Yeah.
Ben: I want to say quickly that Eugene's diary from Kyiv, which we'll link to on our subreddit and at WBUR.org, is really worth reading. One of the of import things to try to exercise during conflicts like this is hear from original direct sources near what they're going through. Less talking heads with hot takes, more than real people. And that includes both people like Eugene and also Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who himself has become a existent viral symbol of the resistance against the Russian invasion.
Ben: So I think we should just shut with some audio of the Ukrainian president speaking. To the European Union from inside Ukraine, he joined by video link and was met with a standing ovation. And he talked about what was happening in that location, and you had a translator who you'll hear and you'll hear the translator get emotional as he is translating what the president of Ukraine, who has really become a symbol for standing up against the Russian invasion, has to say nigh what'due south happening there.
[Interpreter for Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy: We are fighting but for our state and for our freedom despite the fact that all the cities of our land are now blocked. Nobody is going to enter and intervene with our freedom and our country, believe you me. Every square of today, no matter what information technology's chosen is going to be called every bit today, "Freedom Square" in every urban center in our land. Nobody is going to break us. Nosotros are potent. We are Ukrainians.]
Amory: Endless Thread is a product of WBUR, in Boston.
Ben: This episode was produced by Dean Russell and me, Ben Brock Johnson. Sound Design past Paul Vaitkus. There are links to more information, relief efforts, and Eugene's Reddit diary on our website, wbur.org/endlessthread.
Amory: Thanks for listening.
huddlestonfacquale.blogspot.com
Source: https://www.wbur.org/endlessthread/2022/03/04/eugene-from-ukraine
0 Response to "How About Tomorrow We Can Try Again You re My Savior"
Post a Comment